George Hunt: The Fourth World Wilderness Conference
Mr. George Hunt has been an accountant for small businesses, corporations, and partnerships for the past 18 years, specializing in physicians and dentists. He works also with general businesses, doing consulting, accounting, and tax work as well as investment counselling. He kindly made time for this interview on November 18, 1987.
MONEYCHANGER - What was the Fourth World Wilderness Congress that took place September 11th through September 18th?
HUNT - It was billed as a world-wide meeting to address global environmental concerns. As far as the public was concerned, it was produced by a chap named Ian Player, a wealthy, wealthy industrialist of (I believe) English descent. I'm sure he'd be in Who's Who and so on. As I found out it was not really produced by him, but by the moneychangers in London and Europe.
MONEYCHANGER - That is a far-reaching charge. What basis do you have for that?
HUNT - Well, the London banker Baron Edmund de Rothschild was at the meeting for 6 days. Edmund de Rothschild was personally conducting the monetary matters and creation of this World Conservation Bank (WCB), in the company of I. Michael Sweatman of the Royal Bank of Canada. Those 2 were like Siamese twins, and that's why I say that it appears they were running at least the money side of this conference, and I would say the conference was primarily to get money. Also, David Rockefeller <of Chase Manhattan Bank> was there, and gave a speech on Sunday.
MONEYCHANGER - How many people were there?
HUNT - There were 1500 from 60 countries sign up at the first meetings in Denver. That was first 3 days before it went up into the mountains, where the shirtsleeve work was done.
MONEYCHANGER - Into the mountains where?
HUNT - We went up to Estes Park, Colorado from Monday through Friday, after the meetings the preceding Friday through Sunday afternoon at Currigan Hall in Denver. Rockefeller spoke that Sunday and there were keynote addresses about how great this whole idea was. Then we adjourned to the YMCA camp facility in Estes Park for another 5 days of meetings.
MONEYCHANGER - What whole idea?
HUNT - Oh, conservation, ecology, the world has a chance, we're going to beat the ozone deterioration, we're going to get the rain forests back together again. The thing that really set me off was <Secretary of the Treasury James> Baker's talk.
MONEYCHANGER - Was he there?
HUNT - Oh yeah, he was there. He gave the keynote address. He said that conservation requires "growth and development". There was a HUM around the audience, because they knew that "growth and development" are antagonistic to conservation.
MONEYCHANGER - Wait now. There are some code words passing here, aren't there? When Baker says something like that, he's talking in code about something else.
HUNT - Exactly. He's talking in code about the *formula*, the "equation" of conservation and growth and development, that is, assets equals liabilities plus net worth. There were a lot of these *double intendres*.
After the talks for the public and the newspapers were finished on Sunda afternoon, we went up to the shirtsleeves sessions in Estes Park. I had lunch with Michael Sweatman and Mr. and Mrs. Rothschild, and I was able to ask them how this bank was going to continue to operate***
MONEYCHANGER - By "this bank" you mean the WCB?
HUNT - Yes. I didn't see any earnings engine inside it. Where are the earnings coming from, if all you have in it are these wilderness lands, reindeer hides, and so on? I didn't say exactly that, but***
MONEYCHANGER - Reindeer hides don't pay much of a dividend.
HUNT - No. They're planning on re-financing, debt swapping <for assets> one trillion dollars of Third World debt into this new World Conservation Bank. I told a high official of the Brazilian finance ministry, Dr. Jose Pedro de Oliveira-Costa, I don't see how this bank is going to survive. Is this really going to benefit Brazil?
He sad, last night I could not sleep all night long. There is no benefit that anybody's going to get from this bank. If they give us a refinance, in the short run, yes, we will benefit. We will get soft currency from them, we'll be able to get our economy going again, but in the long term, he said, we won't be able to pay those loans back. We've devalued as far as we possibly can in our country, we're at the brink of poverty.
MONEYCHANGER - How will this World Conservation Bank scheme work exactly?
HUNT - The WCB will be enacted by the United Nations, and will need to be approved, I would think, by every country participating. Let's assume that our senators and representatives allow this thing to happen. Then the Bank will be endowed with 30% of the earth's land surface.
MONEYCHANGER - Now WHO is going to do that? Governments around the world will give title to their wilderness lands to the WCB?
HUNT - Will give title to the lands to the World Wilderness Land Inventory Trust. It will be en-trusted. Sounds good, huh? We know about trusts.
Then this Trust will go floating into the WCB by the unanimous decree of the world's people, saying, God Bless you for saving our reindeer. That kind of a mentality is where they're coming from. Those people at the congress were ignorant. They don't suspect anything. They're VERY naive. Not stupid, ignorant.
MONEYCHANGER - Which people do you mean?
HUNT - I'm talking about the conservationists. Conservationists and ecologists comprised about 60% of the people there. About 30% were government, United Nations and other bureaucrats. The other 10% were world banking heavyweights who were there with axes to grind and pencils to sharpen.
So the bank is endowed with an asset, an asset worth how many trillions? I don't know. Their accountants are going to evaluate this 50 million sqaure kilometer <twelve and a half *billion* acres, 5 million hectares> hunk of wilderness lands. then the WCB will have the power to act as a world central bank. It can create soft currencies, not hard currencies, at this point. Soft currencies are used, as you probably know, for some purpose WITHIN a country. But what I picked up on is that the soft currencies can be spent outside of a country for environmental and ecological equipment. Well, hello, International Harvester, Mack Truck, etc., they're going to bring those soft currencies into the US and we're going to have inflation.
MONEYCHANGER - That will be an international currency, in other words. You're calling it a soft currency, but in effect it'll be an international currency.
HUNT - It's not an international currency in the sense of a one world currency because it's not a hard currency, it's not legal tender for all international transactions, yet. Now you know and I know that by currency and debt-for-equity swaps they're going to wheel and deal it from soft into hard somehow. These guys are smart.
MONEYCHANGER - Let me see if I understand. A World Conservation Bank will be set up and into a trust will be vested title to 30% of the world's land surface, 12 1/2 *billion* acres. Against this the WCB will issue loans to various countries to buy, what did you say, environmental***
HUNT - No, no, no, they could issue loans, but I'm talking specifically about currencies. They can create currencies for in-country use.
MONEYCHANGER - Well, that's issuing loans. It's the same thing. They will loan money for certain spceified purposes to these countries. Now am I to assume that say, for example, Brazil, puts up the Amazon Basin, and they get credited a certain amount? Then there's a certain amount of loans they can draw down against that "deposit", so to speak?
HUNT - How it will work I'm not sure. They didn't get into technique, they went into policies and enactments and resolutions. BUT, there could be a gradual loan swap for Brazil, taking them out of their old loans and putting them into a new WCB loan, which will then sweeten the loan on the Chase Manhattan's balance sheet, and will take it out of non-accrual and put it back into the healthy loan column once again.
MONEYCHANGER - or else pay it off.
HUNT - Or they could pay it off, right. They could call it any shot that they wanted to. They could pay them off lickety-split.
MONEYCHANGER - But what's really happened is that the Brazilians will have given up title to millions of acres of land and in exchange the Chase Manhattan will get its loan to Brazil paid off by the WCB.
HUNT - You got it.
MONEYCHANGER - I got it.
<Here's how the 'Fact Sheet: World Conservation Bank' published by the Secretariat of the Fourth World Wilerness Congress states the scheme:
"The World Conservation Bank would finance, direclty and through syndicated and co-fincancing arrangements:
"1) the preparation, development, and implementation of national
"2) the acquisition/lease of environmentally important land
"3) the management and conservations of selected areas.
"And plans for the WCB propose that it act as intermediary between certain developing countries and multilateral or private banks to transfer a specific debt to the WCB, thus substituting an existing 'doubtful' debt in the bank's books for a new loan to the WCB. In return for having been relieved of its debt obligation, the debtor country would transfer to the WCB natural resource assets of 'equivalent value'. Or, developing country debts under foreign assistance programs, which have little hope of repayment, could be retained in-country and applied toward conservation, reforestation, or rural agricultural programs through the WCB.">
HUNT - I believe that World Bank loans, as they stand now, are not collateralized. Now they're entering into a new era of loan collateralization. They're saying, Okay, the next step is that we ant collateral, so that when we loan-swap this debt, and we're going to own the Amazon if you default. Remember, as the Brazilian Oliveira-Costa sad, they're not going to be able to pay that off. That's why he couldn't sleep that night, because he *knew* that they were going to loose the Amazon <or whatever they put up as collateral>.
MONEYCHANGER - These are debt for equity swaps, which they've been talking about for several years. They're going to make their bad loans good by collateralizing them after the fact with all of this land, and somebody, somebody, SOMEBODY is going to end up with title to *twelve and a half billion acres*. Is that right?
HUNT - That's right. The collateral behind whatever loans are in the WCB at the time, if the WCB goes belly up. There's a whole see-saw of things that are going to happen. They have multi-, multi-trillions of dollars upon which they can create currencies and loans, and they're going to begin to barter and countertrade and loan-swap against the United States.
How will this project be put into effect? Will it be installed under the auspices of the United Nations?
HUNT - I think so. There was a United Nations World Commission on Environment and Development created in 1982 that published what's called the Brundtland Report, actually entitled OUR COMMON FUTURE.
MONEYCHANGER - How fast are they moving? When will they try to put this WCB into action?
HUNT - As soon as they can, because as Rockefeller said in his speech, "the good news is that collapse f the monetary system that was predicted by some regarding each of the major borrowing countries has been resolved 'temporarily' by extending the debt."
"Temporarily" -- that means he wants some *permanent* solutions. "They bad news is that lower petroleum prices in 1986 <have> caused countries to renegotiate the schedule for debt repayment again. The borrowing countries are in better shape because interest cost of servicing the nearly F$400 billion in Latin American debt is still enormous. One-third of Latin America's Export earnings are devoted to paying interest on this debt, according to the Institute for International Economics in Washington. Two-thirds of the nearly F$400 billion in debt is owed to a number of commercial banks, including Chase Manhattan. Most are paying only interest payments, not principal, and while economic conditions have improved the countries still face political and structural problems that could hamper repayment."
As you will recall I talked to Oliveira-Costa, a Brazilian finance ministry official, and he said, There is no way that we could pay off that debt. So the bottom line says, We're going to have a financial collapse in our country if they DON'T get the WCB.
At the end of the caucus, Baron Rothschild, "You have decided. This will be a second World Marshall Plan." And I said to myself, "Did we say *that*? Nobody said anything here." When I got home I realized the significance of what he had said. That will be a resolution, because he wrote it on a resolution sheet, I saw him do it. That means that the governments are going to guarantee the debt of the WCB. Now Russia was a lot of the wilderness lands, and I see that Russia is going to get a lot of the loans. When they default, and the US is going to be the turkey again.
MONEYCHANGER - But still, in the end, SOMEBODY is going to end up with title to those lands, and I suggest that these somebodies are these same moneyed interests that were so much in evidence at this Fourth World Wilderness Conference.
HUNT - Exactly, and they're going to be in back of the bank loaning currency and cash flow to the WCB to keep it alive, to give it the *appearance* of profitability. The bank will be running on an accrual basis. On paper it will be recognizing profits received on interests, but the interests will NOT be coming in because these countries cannot pay. So my hypothesis is that the kings, capitalists, and moneychangers of the world will be in the back of this bank in the position of *creditors*.
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